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IE7 and Web Standards

Paul Thurrott:

"Wilson's (IE Lead Program Manager) post is disappointing because Microsoft
doesn't plan to fully support the latest CSS standard in IE 7.0..."

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/...7208.html?Ad=1

Roy
Aug 3 '05 #1
22 2160
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Paul Thurrott:
"Wilson's (IE Lead Program Manager) post is disappointing because Microsoft
doesn't plan to fully support the latest CSS standard in IE 7.0..."

IE7 is completely irrelevant to us and will be for at least another 5
years. MS continues to pioneer trailing edge technology in most innovative
ways.

--
jmm dash list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
Aug 3 '05 #2
Roy Schestowitz:
Paul Thurrott:
Whoever that guy is. Judging by this one article, he is noöne to be
taken serious (regarding webdesign).
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/...7208.html?Ad=1


I don't understand why webdesigners are disappointed that they are not
included in the IE7b1 testing group, because for all I know this one
doesn't change that much for them anyway. If IE7b2 was restricted in the
same way, I could understand the disappointment, if it indeed included
the promised bug-fixes and improvements. Until then let sysadmins etc.
check out the alleged security improvements.
Of course it's sad, but nothing new, that MS doesn't comply to industry
standards, where beta versions are pretty much feature-fixed---some
attribute that to release candidates (RC) only, though. Therefore beta1
would have to be considered an alpha release or, in Opera's terms, a
technical preview (TP).

Chris Wilson's blog post
<http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx> lists many of
the main annoyances with IE today, so, if they're indeed being taken
care of, we should be glad, instead of calling for boycot. Noöne serious
expects Microsoft to become the leader in standards compliance with
their first release in five years (not counting IE/Mac).

Regarding Acid2, it's nice to fulfill that, which Firefox and Opera
don't, but the (still incomplete) CSS 2.1 test suite is more important.
It's reasonable for MS and other browser developers to target CSS 2.1
conformance now, instead of 2.0.

One CSS 2.1 feature we likely won't see in IE7 are the table related
values of the 'display' value, because that would probably require a
complete rewrite of one of the major parts of the rendering engine.
Maybe they should have checked out the possibility of porting and
improving Tasman, the rendering engine of IE5/Mac, because that doesn't
have as much legacy ballast---what do I know, maybe they did.

Backwards compatibility isn't really an issue for MS: I don't expect any
changes at all in Quirks Mode. In Standards Mode they can make all the
standards conforming changes they want, despite breaking a few sites
stupidly relying on CSS hacks. Hacks were always discouraged by anyone
with a sane mind (so was DTD switching, though). My fear is nevertheless
that they once again think bug compatibility was important even in
Standards Mode.

Besides, if the GUI was fixed to what first screenshots indicate, that'd
be a far worse problem for users than CSS conformity.
Aug 3 '05 #3
Christoph Päper wrote:
Roy Schestowitz:
Paul Thurrott:


Whoever that guy is.


He's been writing books about Windows stuff for many years. I have an
early Visual Interdev book of his, and corresponded with him back
then. He was very helpful.

http://www.winsupersite.com/

Note I am just pointing to some references for your question, not
whether he is an expert. <g>

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Aug 3 '05 #4
Jim Moe wrote:
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Paul Thurrott:
"Wilson's (IE Lead Program Manager) post is disappointing because
Microsoft
doesn't plan to fully support the latest CSS standard in IE 7.0..."

IE7 is completely irrelevant to us and will be for at least another 5
years.


Why? Do you think it will be that long before it shows up on Windows
Update and comes loaded on all new standard-order Windows machines?
Aug 3 '05 #5
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Jim Moe wrote:
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Paul Thurrott:
"Wilson's (IE Lead Program Manager) post is disappointing because
Microsoft
doesn't plan to fully support the latest CSS standard in IE 7.0..."

IE7 is completely irrelevant to us and will be for at least another 5
years.


Why? Do you think it will be that long before it shows up on Windows
Update and comes loaded on all new standard-order Windows machines?


It only works under Windows XP or later. Most machines are still running
Windows 2000 (or something to that effect).

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com
Aug 3 '05 #6
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Christoph Päper wrote:
Roy Schestowitz:
Paul Thurrott:


Whoever that guy is.


He's been writing books about Windows stuff for many years. I have an
early Visual Interdev book of his, and corresponded with him back
then. He was very helpful.

http://www.winsupersite.com/

Note I am just pointing to some references for your question, not
whether he is an expert. <g>


It's possible that his critique craves some attention. He ended up being
Slashdotted, also when he severely criticised Windows Longhorn (Vista). He
doesn't appear to be happy with choices that have recently been made by
Microsoft. He was much more excited about the release of Tiger.

I hope this adds a wee bit of context.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com
Aug 3 '05 #7
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:

Jim Moe wrote:
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Paul Thurrott:
"Wilson's (IE Lead Program Manager) post is disappointing because
Microsoft
doesn't plan to fully support the latest CSS standard in IE 7.0..."
IE7 is completely irrelevant to us and will be for at least another 5
years.


Why? Do you think it will be that long before it shows up on Windows
Update and comes loaded on all new standard-order Windows machines?

It only works under Windows XP or later. Most machines are still running
Windows 2000 (or something to that effect).


Windows XP has been out for three years and most new (non-server)
machines come with it, so your remark doesn't address the question of
why it would take *another* five years for IE7 to be anything other than
"completely irrelevant to us".
Aug 3 '05 #8
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:

Jim Moe wrote:
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Paul Thurrott:
"Wilson's (IE Lead Program Manager) post is disappointing because
Microsoft
doesn't plan to fully support the latest CSS standard in IE 7.0..."
IE7 is completely irrelevant to us and will be for at least another 5
years.


Why? Do you think it will be that long before it shows up on Windows
Update and comes loaded on all new standard-order Windows machines?

It only works under Windows XP or later. Most machines are still running
Windows 2000 (or something to that effect).


What source of stats do you depend on for your assertion that most
machines are still running Win2000? Stats I follow indicate that
Win2000 usage is at about 12%, and XP usage at about 65%.
Aug 3 '05 #9
C A Upsdell wrote:
Roy Schestowitz wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:

Jim Moe wrote:

Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>Paul Thurrott:
>"Wilson' s (IE Lead Program Manager) post is disappointing because
>Microsof t
>doesn't plan to fully support the latest CSS standard in IE 7.0..."
>

IE7 is completely irrelevant to us and will be for at least another 5
years.

Why? Do you think it will be that long before it shows up on Windows
Update and comes loaded on all new standard-order Windows machines?

It only works under Windows XP or later. Most machines are still running
Windows 2000 (or something to that effect).


What source of stats do you depend on for your assertion that most
machines are still running Win2000? Stats I follow indicate that
Win2000 usage is at about 12%, and XP usage at about 65%.


Finally found it...

http://news.com.com/The+slow+road+to+Windows+XP/ ...
2100-1016_3-5746046.html?pa rt=rss&tag=5746 046&subj=news

(long URL so append lines and remove " ...")

It took me a while to find this again. I said "something to that effect"
because it speaks of businesses and I think it also refers to the States.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com
Aug 3 '05 #10

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