Pronunciation of "char"

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Debajit Adhikary wrote:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

AFAIK, no one has been trivial enough to declare a standard
pronunciation for the C keyword "char".

In any case, to me "char" is pronounced "char", not "tchar" or "kar".
- --

Lew Pitcher, IT Consultant, Enterprise Application Architecture
Enterprise Technology Solutions, TD Bank Financial Group

(Opinions expressed here are my own, not my employer's)
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"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

Undoubtedly Stroustrup pronounces the full word "tcharatster", but I do
not.

Richard

"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd********@odak26.prod.google.com...

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

IME, native English speakers mostly say "tchar" (and all say "karakter").
There's always one or two oddballs though ;).

"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

Alex

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd********@odak26.prod.google.com...

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

IME, native English speakers mostly say "tchar" (and all say "karakter").
There's always one or two oddballs though ;).

"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

I don't follow this. Where is the 't' coming from?

I pronounce it "char", like in "char broiled steaks".

In <cd********@odak26.prod.google.com> "Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> writes:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

Read the FAQ. It deals even with such trivia!

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

"Kenny McCormack" <ga*****@yin.interaccess.com> wrote in message
news:cd**********@yin.interaccess.com...

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net>

wrote:

"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd********@odak26.prod.google.com...

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

IME, native English speakers mostly say "tchar" (and all say
"karakter").
There's always one or two oddballs though ;).

"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

I don't follow this. Where is the 't' coming from?

Say "tuh shah". And again, but slightly faster. And again, faster still. And
again, ...

Alex

In <2m************@uni-berlin.de> "Alex Fraser" <me@privacy.net> writes:

"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cd********@odak26.prod.google.com...

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

IME, native English speakers mostly say "tchar" (and all say "karakter").
There's always one or two oddballs though ;).

"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

But, unlike the C keyword "char", it is entirely unrelated to character
types. In English, semantics often dictate pronunciation, as in
"bass" (ichthyology) vs "bass" (music) or "read" (present tense) vs "read"
(past tense).

So, even for a native English speaker, I consider "tchar" as some kind
of machismo. The ones I know used "kar" (in a C context, obviously).

BTW, what about the French programmers? Are they faithful to their
people's practice of pronouncing everything according to the French
pronunciation rules and say "shar" or do they apply the "semantics
dictate pronunciation" rule and say "kar" (from "caractère")?

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

"Dan Pop" <Da*****@cern.ch> wrote in message
news:cd**********@sunnews.cern.ch...

In <2m************@uni-berlin.de> "Alex Fraser" <me@privacy.net> writes:

"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".
But, unlike the C keyword "char", it is entirely unrelated to character
types.

True.
In English, semantics often dictate pronunciation, as in
"bass" (ichthyology) vs "bass" (music) or "read" (present tense) vs
"read" (past tense).

So, even for a native English speaker, I consider "tchar" as some kind
of machismo.

I pity your insecurity if you think that is so ;).

Seriously though, I can't say I ever gave it much thought; to me it's just a
case of "I say tomahto, you say tomayto," I use what I first heard, and I
couldn't care less how other people say it, as long as the meaning is clear.

Alex

Le mardi 20 juillet 2004 à 16:53, Dan Pop a écrit dans comp.lang.c*:

BTW, what about the French programmers? Are they faithful to their
people's practice of pronouncing everything according to the French
pronunciation rules and say "shar" or do they apply the "semantics
dictate pronunciation" rule and say "kar" (from "caractère")?

It depends. Some pronounce "shar", others pronounce "kar".

Note that there is a French word spelled "char", pronounced "shar", and
meaning "tank", in the military sense (i.e. the armoured vehicule).

--
___________ 2004-07-20 18:09:15
_/ _ \_`_`_`_) Serge PACCALIN -- sp ad mailclub.net
\ \_L_) Il faut donc que les hommes commencent
-'(__) par n'être pas fanatiques pour mériter
_/___(_) la tolérance. -- Voltaire, 1763

>Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"

and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

ANSI C does not require pronunciation at all. Any pronunciation is
platform-specific and probably programmer-specific as well.

Gordon L. Burditt

Dan Pop a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :

BTW, what about the French programmers? Are they faithful to their
people's practice of pronouncing everything according to the French
pronunciation rules and say "shar"
Like my coworkers, I say 'shar'.
or do they apply the "semantics
dictate pronunciation" rule and say "kar" (from "caractère")?

Never heard 'kar' in France in this context.

--
Emmanuel

Serge Paccalin a écrit :

Note that there is a French word spelled "char", pronounced "shar", and
meaning "tank", in the military sense (i.e. the armoured vehicule).

'char' It's also a car in French Canadian.

--
Emmanuel

In <3h**************@canttouchthis-127.0.0.1> Serge Paccalin <sp@mailclub.no.spam.net.invalid> writes:

Note that there is a French word spelled "char", pronounced "shar", and
meaning "tank", in the military sense (i.e. the armoured vehicule).

I know, but it is as relevant as the English "char" word.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

In <mn***********************@YOURBRAnoos.fr> Emmanuel Delahaye <em***@YOURBRAnoos.fr> writes:

'char' It's also a car in French Canadian.

Since Canadian is not a language, I guess you're talking about Canadian
French ;-)

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> writes:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

Peter Seebach's excellent Infrequently Asked Questions list,
<http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/faqs/c-iaq.html>, says:

19.26: How do you pronounce ``char''?

Like the first word of ``char *''. The accent is generally on the
first syllable.

Seriously, though, I don't think there's any real consensus on the
issue.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Kenny McCormack" <ga*****@yin.interaccess.com> wrote in message
news:cd**********@yin.interaccess.com...

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net>

wrote:

>"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:cd********@odak26.prod.google.com...
>> Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
>> and not "kar".
>>
>> Does the same hold true largely in the C world?
>
>IME, native English speakers mostly say "tchar" (and all say
>"karakter").
>There's always one or two oddballs though ;).
>
>"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

I don't follow this. Where is the 't' coming from?

Say "tuh shah". And again, but slightly faster. And again, faster still. And
again, ...

Alex

Still don't get it. Sounds like I'm dictating a letter to a former leader
of Iran.

Debajit Adhikary wrote:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

No no, it's pronounced "throat-warbler mangrove".


Brian Rodenborn

Da*****@cern.ch (Dan Pop) wrote in message news:<cd**********@sunnews.cern.ch>...

Read the FAQ. It deals even with such trivia!

What do you know, it IS there!

Question 20.39

How do you pronounce ``char''?

You can pronounce the C keyword ``char'' in at least
three ways: like the English words ``char,'' ``care,''
or ``car;'' the choice is arbitrary.

Of course the correct pronunciation is "khar" just as
the correct pronunciation of "caesar" is "kaisar".

But the standard does not define pronunciations, so saying
this aloud may result in undefined behaviour.

Default User wrote:

Debajit Adhikary wrote:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

No no, it's pronounced "throat-warbler mangrove".

Then why isn't it spelt "Raymond Luxury Yacht"?

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:03:06 GMT, in comp.lang.c ,
ga*****@yin.interaccess.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote:

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Say "tuh shah". And again, but slightly faster. And again, faster still. And
again, ...

Still don't get it. Sounds like I'm dictating a letter to a former leader
of Iran.

t(s)ch is how you write the hard ch sound (church, chicken), to
differentiate it from the soft ch (charlatan, choux) or the throatier cgh
we scots like (loch, och aye the noo).

It also helps differentiate between c(h)ar and (t)char, the fomer being
pronounced like automobile, the latter like incinerate.

FTR I think its incinerate.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 17:18:26 -0400, in comp.lang.c , Martin Ambuhl
<ma*****@earthlink.net> wrote:

Default User wrote:

Debajit Adhikary wrote:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

No no, it's pronounced "throat-warbler mangrove".

Then why isn't it spelt "Raymond Luxury Yacht"?

You're a very silly man and I'm not going to talk to you.

--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html>
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"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<cd********@odak26.prod.google.com>...

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

In English, the word "char" is usually pronounced like the English
words "char", "car", or "care". There is a FAQ about this.

Gregory Pietsch

Kenny McCormack said the following, on 07/20/04 15:03:

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Kenny McCormack" <ga*****@yin.interaccess.com> wrote in message
news:cd**********@yin.interaccess.com...

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net>

wrote: [snip]

"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

I don't follow this. Where is the 't' coming from?

Say "tuh shah". And again, but slightly faster. And again, faster still. And
again, ...

Still don't get it. Sounds like I'm dictating a letter to a former leader
of Iran.

The 't' is really coming from an attempt to represent the vocal
production of the 'hard ch' sound -- the one at the beginning of the
word 'charcoal' or 'cheese' -- as distinct from the 'soft ch' in
'charade' or 'champagne'.

If you pronounce 'char' as in 'charcoal', notice that the tip of your
tongue starts out behind your top teeth. That's the same position it
starts in to pronounce 'two'; that's where the 't' comes from.

--
Rich Gibbs
rg****@alumni.princeton.edu

Gregory Pietsch wrote:

"Debajit Adhikary" <de******@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<cd********@odak26.prod.google.com>...

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

In English, the word "char" is usually pronounced like the English
words "char", "car", or "care". There is a FAQ about this.

Although I discuss C online I very rarely get the opportunity to
talk about C with other programmers. So my pronunciation of
"char" is perhaps idiosyncratic. But I hear it as (and say it
as, if I'm talking C to myself), the first syllable of the word
"character". Thus it does not sound like any of the English words
"car", "care" or "char": it sounds like "char" as in "charisma",
or "car" as in "carapace" or "caravan". FWIW.

Allin Cottrell.

Groovy hepcat Debajit Adhikary was jivin' on 20 Jul 2004 05:21:06
-0700 in comp.lang.c.
Pronunciation of "char"'s a cool scene! Dig it!

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".

Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

Look, everybody knows it's pronounced "teefkac". This pronunciation
is derived from the acronym "TFKAC" which stands for "type formerly
known as char".

--

Dig the even newer still, yet more improved, sig!

http://alphalink.com.au/~phaywood/
"Ain't I'm a dog?" - Ronny Self, Ain't I'm a Dog, written by G. Sherry & W. Walker.
I know it's not "technically correct" English; but since when was rock & roll "technically correct"?

Le mardi 20 juillet 2004 à 18:36, Dan Pop a écrit dans comp.lang.c*:

In <3h**************@canttouchthis-127.0.0.1> Serge Paccalin <sp@mailclub.no.spam.net.invalid> writes:

Note that there is a French word spelled "char", pronounced "shar", and
meaning "tank", in the military sense (i.e. the armoured vehicule).

I know, but it is as relevant as the English "char" word.

You're right, both are relevant.

--
___________ 2004-07-21 08:12:01
_/ _ \_`_`_`_) Serge PACCALIN -- sp ad mailclub.net
\ \_L_) Il faut donc que les hommes commencent
-'(__) par n'être pas fanatiques pour mériter
_/___(_) la tolérance. -- Voltaire, 1763

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Allin Cottrell wrote:

Gregory Pietsch wrote:

In English, the word "char" is usually pronounced like the English
words "char", "car", or "care". There is a FAQ about this.

Although I discuss C online I very rarely get the opportunity to
talk about C with other programmers. So my pronunciation of
"char" is perhaps idiosyncratic. But I hear it as (and say it
as, if I'm talking C to myself), the first syllable of the word
"character". Thus it does not sound like any of the English words
"car", "care" or "char": it sounds like "char" as in "charisma",
or "car" as in "carapace" or "caravan". FWIW.

Not that that's going to help many people, at least not those
that talk like me. I pronounce the "char" in "character" exactly
as in "care," ditto "carapace" (which could be "care-a-pace" or
"care-uh-piss," like "wahter"/"wutter") and "caravan." And I
pronounce "charisma" as "ker-iz-mah," with a schwa, which doesn't
sound anything like "care."

So I've got no idea how you pronounce "char," except that I'd
guess it's with either a British accent or a Southern one. :)

-Arthur

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:45:11 -0400, Rich Gibbs
<rg****@REMOVEalumni.CAPSprinceton.edu> wrote:

Kenny McCormack said the following, on 07/20/04 15:03:

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net> wrote:

"Kenny McCormack" <ga*****@yin.interaccess.com> wrote in message
news:cd**********@yin.interaccess.com...

In article <2m************@uni-berlin.de>, Alex Fraser <me@privacy.net>

wrote:[snip]>
>"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

I don't follow this. Where is the 't' coming from?

Say "tuh shah". And again, but slightly faster. And again, faster still. And
again, ...

Still don't get it. Sounds like I'm dictating a letter to a former leader
of Iran.

The 't' is really coming from an attempt to represent the vocal
production of the 'hard ch' sound -- the one at the beginning of the
word 'charcoal' or 'cheese' -- as distinct from the 'soft ch' in
'charade' or 'champagne'.

If you pronounce 'char' as in 'charcoal', notice that the tip of your
tongue starts out behind your top teeth. That's the same position it
starts in to pronounce 'two'; that's where the 't' comes from.

An interesting thread, though I have doubts about its topicality. Am I
the only one who pronounces "char" like the first syllable of
"character"?

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
re************************@att.net

In <9k********************************@4ax.com> Alan Balmer <al******@att.net> writes:

An interesting thread, though I have doubts about its topicality. Am I
It's off topic because it's already covered by the FAQ.
the only one who pronounces "char" like the first syllable of
"character"?

I suspect this is the prevalent pronunciation among the non-anglophone and
non-francophone programmers. For anglophone and francophone programmers,
only a properly conducted survey could provide some meaningful data.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Da*****@ifh.de

Arthur J. O'Dwyer wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Allin Cottrell wrote:

Gregory Pietsch wrote: Although I discuss C online I very rarely get the opportunity to
talk about C with other programmers. So my pronunciation of
"char" is perhaps idiosyncratic. But I hear it as (and say it
as, if I'm talking C to myself), the first syllable of the word
"character". Thus it does not sound like any of the English words
"car", "care" or "char": it sounds like "char" as in "charisma",
or "car" as in "carapace" or "caravan". FWIW.

Not that that's going to help many people, at least not those
that talk like me. I pronounce the "char" in "character" exactly
as in "care,"... ditto "carapace" (which could be "care-a-pace" or

So I've got no idea how you pronounce "char," except that I'd
guess it's with either a British accent or a Southern one. :)

British. The 'a' sound is the same as in 'and'. Don't tell me
you pronounce that 'aind' or 'ahnd'!

Allin

Allin Cottrell wrote:

Although I discuss C online I very rarely get the opportunity to
talk about C with other programmers. So my pronunciation of
"char" is perhaps idiosyncratic. But I hear it as (and say it
as, if I'm talking C to myself), the first syllable of the word
"character". Thus it does not sound like any of the English words
"car", "care" or "char": it sounds like "char" as in "charisma",
or "car" as in "carapace" or "caravan". FWIW.

Sounds like some real pronounciation differences. To me, the first
syllables of "carapace" and "caravan" sound like "care". The word
"charisma" sounds like "kuh-risma".

Now I feel like I'm on alt.usage.english. They love this stuff.

Oh, for "char" I say "car", like what you drive around in.

Brian Rodenborn

Default User wrote:

Although I discuss C online I very rarely get the opportunity to
talk about C with other programmers. So my pronunciation of
"char" is perhaps idiosyncratic. But I hear it as (and say it
as, if I'm talking C to myself), the first syllable of the word
"character". Thus it does not sound like any of the English words
"car", "care" or "char": it sounds like "char" as in "charisma",
or "car" as in "carapace" or "caravan". FWIW.

Sounds like some real pronounciation differences. To me, the first
syllables of "carapace" and "caravan" sound like "care". The word
"charisma" sounds like "kuh-risma".

Sorry, "charisma" was a bad example: s/charisma/charismatic

Allin Cottrell

Allin Cottrell wrote:

Default User wrote:

Sounds like some real pronounciation differences. To me, the first
syllables of "carapace" and "caravan" sound like "care". The word
"charisma" sounds like "kuh-risma".

Sorry, "charisma" was a bad example: s/charisma/charismatic

Ah, that is different, and I'd agree that it sounds like the other two.
Also like "care".


Brian Rodenborn

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:59:35 GMT, in comp.lang.c , Default User
<fi********@boeing.com.invalid> wrote:

Allin Cottrell wrote:

Although I discuss C online I very rarely get the opportunity to
talk about C with other programmers. So my pronunciation of
"char" is perhaps idiosyncratic. But I hear it as (and say it
as, if I'm talking C to myself), the first syllable of the word
"character". Thus it does not sound like any of the English words
"car", "care" or "char": it sounds like "char" as in "charisma",
or "car" as in "carapace" or "caravan". FWIW.

Sounds like some real pronounciation differences. To me, the first
syllables of "carapace" and "caravan" sound like "care". The word
"charisma" sounds like "kuh-risma".

Weird. As far as I'm concerned, they're all identical - kar. The a may be
a little longer in carapace.
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>
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Default User wrote:

Sounds like some real pronounciation differences. To me, the first
syllables of "carapace" and "caravan" sound like "care". The word
"charisma" sounds like "kuh-risma".

Sorry, "charisma" was a bad example: s/charisma/charismatic

Ah, that is different, and I'd agree that it sounds like the other two.
Also like "care".

care-is-matic? Ok, I give up.

Allin Cottrell.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Debajit Adhikary wrote:

Now I know (from Stroustrup's site) that "char" is pronounced "tchar"
and not "kar".
Incorrect. Bjarne pronounces it as "tchar". Different people will
pronounce it differently. Some will sound it out as they read it "char" as
in charcoal. Others will sound it out based on what they believe it
represents "care" as in character. Others will use "car" because they are
slurring character. Some will go so far as to pronounce it "character".

The correct why to pronounce it is whatever way the people in the
conversation will understand.
Does the same hold true largely in the C world?

What I said holds true in the C world as well.

--
Send e-mail to: darrell at cs dot toronto dot edu
Don't send e-mail to vi************@whitehouse.gov

Kenny McCormack wrote:
[...]

"Char" is an English word, spoken "tchar".

I don't follow this. Where is the 't' coming from?

I pronounce it "char", like in "char broiled steaks".

I assume he's trying to distinguish the hard "ch" of "chair" from the
soft "ch" of "chartreuse".

--
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